Today’s episode features former NFL player Shawn Harper and he discusses the difference between winning vs success. You can listen to the episode here, watch the Video, or of course read the show notes below. Remember to subscribe to the Podcast on your favorite service, YouTube Channel, and my “Weekly Sales Leader-News Letter.”
Show Notes for The Difference Between Winning vs Success
Tim Kubiak 0:09
Thanks for listening to bowties and business. I’m your host Tim Kubiak. As always, you can find us on our socials at bow ties in business on Facebook and Instagram and bow ties and bi z on Twitter. You can find me at Tim Kubiak on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter and at Kubiak calm. Today we’re talking to Shawn Harper, the former NFL offensive lineman who played a total of seven seasons with the Rams, the Oilers in the Colts and NFL your since 2004. He’s owned and operates American services, services and protection. a multimillion dollar security services firm headquartered in Columbus, Ohio, his journey from the grip and sweat of the NFL locker room to the corporate culture of the boardroom proved that he could win in both worlds by using many of the same principles and strategies. You’re going to hear a great conversation today. And just so you know, if you go to Shawn harper.org, you can download a free copy of his first book, The Winning Edge. Sean, welcome to the show.
Shawn Harper 1:03
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Tim Kubiak 1:05
I told you as we were kind of getting to know each other here, I’ve heard you speak before. For anyone that goes to your website, that video of your back story is so powerful, but you mind sharing a little bit of your story here.
Shawn Harper 1:16
Sure, you know, most people are under under the assumption, you know, the person playing the NFL. He’s, you know, he’s a he’s a business owner. He’s an investor. And that’s the story. But it’s the actual backstory that really sets this whole thing up, you know, I was plagued with insurmountable odds growing up at four to five learning disabilities, not core. But Pope, there’s a big difference between being poor and Pope, you know, mom was trying to make ends meet one of six kids, you know, repeating the first grade having the learning disabilities, different disabilities, but Thomas in the fifth grade, just just just marked with, with this, just several layers and different perspectives of just poverty, just impoverished in so many areas of my life, kicked out of a couple schools because of disciplinary issues, leave high schools at 1.6 to a cumulative GPA, none and may CT at 150, for seniors to graduate, my Academic Ranking was 154 voted most likely to fail. athletically, I wasn’t even an honorable mention on conference before I got the dreaded third year participation award, you know, you know, you kind of hit a little, you know, whisper claps in the background and but there was this dichotomy, because I knew that there was something greater and and I wasn’t able to find it until a couple of things happened. One, I get a phone call from our junior college, a two year school in Mason City, Iowa, and I go up to that Junior College, just the first thing that happened, I changed my environment, but epanet but up in the cornfields of Mason City, Iowa is just something happened. And the switch with a paradigm is that I said to myself, one day I could no longer or I realized that I will never become successful, but I can win in this game of life. And once I was able to make the switch from a success mindset to a winning mindset, you know, I kind of for all you mature audience or older audience of it kind of I kind of macgyvered life at that point, you know, I began to look for every single opportunity out there, you know, I begin to do what most people don’t do. That’s one distinction of a winner is that a winner willing to do what the other people will not do or won’t do. And if the study extra, it was, you know, if it’s if it’s right 200 colleges, just to get my name out there is what I was able to do what I started doing, in fact, I went back to junior college, my second year, about four months early just to train just so I can get the edge and that next year it paid off paid amazing dividends of first team all region, full scholarship, Indiana University draft dating NFL third pick in the fourth round, the rest is history.
Tim Kubiak 4:13
So one of the things that you talked about in your book, is when you made the decision to make that switch, right. You literally wrote NFL put it up on the wall. And you cut the naysayers out of your life even at that point. Do you mind sharing a little more about how hard that was? And also the other change that had to have occurred along then?
Shawn Harper 4:34
Well, one day I was in the dorm room with three or four guys in a room and it’s a Freudian slip. I jumped up I said, Man, I’ve always wanted to play NFL football. And you know, one of the guys just stood up be turned down on TV. He was like Shawn, I hate to break reality to you. But shine. Don’t ever make it. You’re not strong enough. You’re not quick enough. You’re not fast enough. By the way, let me stop right there. Never allow people to create your Because there will always created too small. Your dream is like a seed, you can often count the number of seeds in orange, but you can never count the number of oranges in the seed. Your potential is limitless. And I walked out to the practice field, you know, I was embarrassed guy for laughing, you know, and I, and I looked up and I said, Man, all I have is this dream. I said, No one believes in me. I say, but you know what, I’m gonna believe in me. And I went back to the dorm room. And I pulled out a sheet of paper, and I wrote down three letters. And the letters were NFL. And every day I woke up, I said, NFL, that’s where I’m going. And it’s funny, because to be totally transparent, most of me didn’t believe me. But what I was able to do is I was able to muster up a seed just just a little bit, and I begin to focus on that. And that little bit begin to grow and grow and begin to take over all you need is a spark, you know, and it just begin to grow. And, you know, things begin to change my attitude begin to change my walk, change my swag change, because I knew where I was going. Once you have a man or woman who’s focused, and they know where he or she is going with conviction. They are untouchable, I am going to the NFL. And it was weird, because about several weeks later, the same guys, you know, they kind of like barge into my dorm room and one of the guys looked upset, man, what is that? I said, Man, that’s the NFL. That’s where I’m going, they begin to laugh again. And I looked at my dream, and I looked at the guy. So I looked at my dream. And I looked at the guys, and I walked over to him said, You know what, if I wanted to do drugs, you would support me probably. I said, but I’m going for my dream and you’re laughing at me. I said, you, you, you you you raise up and get out of my room. One of the things I’ve learned is that everyone can’t go. Stop looking for people to support your dream and vision. Everyone can go. And you have to make the decision, and you to be uncomfortable, to be uncivilized to be uncultured. To me civilized is a bad word, when you want to do great things, because most people were criticized and when they were younger, which is which is why they’re scared to step out the box. They were criticized because they were different. But our world really celebrates people who are different. We celebrate the Michael Jordan’s we celebrate Michael Phelps, we celebrate a mike Earhart, we celebrate Bill Gates, we celebrate Warren Buffett, we celebrate James Brown, we celebrate Mick Jagger, but because they’re cut above, they’re different. And so you have to be willing to endure the criticism to endure the rejection, to face the pain that take the pain to go to the next level.
Tim Kubiak 7:54
You talk about the difference between winning and success.
Unknown Speaker 7:58
Tim Kubiak 7:59
Right. And you’ve put it in a way I hadn’t heard before. It’s really insightful.
Shawn Harper 8:05
Yeah, to me, and this is going to ruffle a lot of feathers. Probably, to me, success is a man made construct. Okay, we’re not created for success retreated to win, there’s a big difference between winning and success. Winning is the fullest, fullest expression of who you are mentally, physically, socially, economically, obviously, and most important legacy. Success tends to focus on one or two things main, mainly economics, we celebrate wealth, too much in this world and too much in this country. And we deem it as successful although, or even though in other areas of their life, they’re struggling, but we kind of put that to the side, because wealth helps production. But winning focuses not only on production, but reproduction. There’s a difference. The danger of success is that success is not static, which means you can be successful here. So I’m in Ohio, if I had $10 million in Ohio, I’m doing well. You take $10 million to New York City, your average you take $10 million to Dubai, you’re broke, you owe your average, guys a big difference. And so you’re never on firm footing, because you’re always achieving something that can’t be achieved, because they need you always to chase the carrot of success. Winning is when you know, hey, I’m winning. I’m looking at my family. I’m looking at my health. I’m looking at my wealth. I’m looking at all areas of my life. And I’m doing fairly well. I’m winning, and I’m looking at my legacy. I’m winning. If you can’t look yourself in the mirror in these areas, Hey, are you winning? Are you doing well, but you’re not winning? Yeah,
Tim Kubiak 9:46
yeah. And the part that grabbed me was you use the analogy, I believe in the book of a kid a foot race, right? You either win or you lose. Right? And and I love that you call out and by the way, I’m a reformed corporate guy. So I love That you call out that measure of getting off the wheel in standing out and being different. Because you’re right, you know, so much of the world is about do this, get a job, get a bigger job, buy a bigger house, buy a bigger, this buy bigger that right? And it’s not about your happiness, and you defining it on your own terms. And it’s one of the most powerful parts of your story to me personally.
Shawn Harper 10:21
Yeah, it’s, it’s so amazing. It’s that the executive, the C suites, they’re trained to win. Okay, they’re trained to, they’re trained to make the numbers, okay, they’re trained, and even, even even the vice president or the president of a fortune 500 company, you fire him or her It doesn’t matter. They have a golden parachute there when is already built in there buyout is built in. But middle management in lower they teach success and success. Teachers goals. C suite executives, they teach strategies. They teach edge, they teach a different mindset. And what would happen from if it was the CEO, from the from the CEO all the way down to the receptionist? What would happen if they all thought winning? They all thought about winning? And what would happen if the C suites made sure that the people under them won? Wow, you have a very, very powerful culture. Because winning is the essence of who you are. The DNA of every human being is that of a winner, because we were one of two to 3 million sperm cells that fertilize the egg. Think about that. That’s one
Tim Kubiak 11:41
of the race to be here. Right.
Shawn Harper 11:43
That’s why that’s why we love gambling. That’s why we love gaming. That’s why we love sports. why they’re about the council the man. I mean, only want to touch that subject. You know,
Tim Kubiak 11:56
I was afraid to ask you to be honest. I saw that. I saw the big 10 canceled saw
Shawn Harper 12:00
some others. Gosh, I’m Jason. I’m like I am. I’m like, I might need therapy for that one. Okay. Yeah. So I mean, I mean, just take sports, for example. Okay, let’s take football. Let’s take your favorite team. I imagine if your favorite team won every game for the next five years. You could not find a ticket. Take that same team and they lost every game for the next five years. You could walk right into that stadium they would be have their cheerleaders be given tickets away. at the mall, okay, why? You still love the team? You still got that old jersey, but you can’t wear it. Because you can’t identify with losing.
Unknown Speaker 12:43
Yeah, worse a winner.
Tim Kubiak 12:46
You’re gonna laugh? I don’t tell many people this. I’ve got a Pittsburgh Steelers tattoo. Still talking to me? Yeah.
Shawn Harper 12:54
Oh, my God. But you know what? It’s fine. It’s, you know, it’s okay. It’s where I grew up.
Tim Kubiak 13:00
Right. I literally grew up and you’re you’re right. But I moved up when they had a bad season. I moved up five years in the season ticket waiting list a few years back. Wow. Because they missed the playoffs. Right. So I went from a 28 year wait to 23 year Wait, it looks like wow.
Shawn Harper 13:17
That’s a good problem to have your owner Rooney’s?
Tim Kubiak 13:20
Yeah, yeah. That The truth is, I grew up with stories of my dad talking about going down and buying tickets from old man Rooney on his lunch hour as a kid taking the street car down. And he was literally working the ticket but very different game than Dinallo.
Shawn Harper 13:38
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Wow.
Tim Kubiak 13:40
Yeah. You have a saying before you can become you must already be. Yeah. What do you mean by that?
Shawn Harper 13:50
Well, it’s, it’s, you know, you ever wonder why you can take a take a man and give him a million dollars or $20 million. And within six months or six years, the person’s broke again, is because although externally, you’re a millionaire, internally, you’re impoverished. And so we try so hard to become, but we can never really obtain it because it’s not attracted to you. And if it comes to you, it won’t stay with you. In order for you to become and sustain it, you have to be so now it’s not from the outside in is from the inside out your presence as well. Your presence is that of a winner, your presence is that of a motivator. Yeah. And so you will always manifest what you are, you will always manifest what you are. And so in order for you to have different things on the outside, you got to change what’s going on on the inside.
Tim Kubiak 14:49
And part of that’s visualizing it.
Shawn Harper 14:51
Yes. Well, not only visualizing and identifying with it. So it’s not what you want to be is who you are I am wealthy, or I am, you know, a son of God or whatever, it’s your identity is everything.
Unknown Speaker 15:11
I’m a winner. I’m a winner.
Tim Kubiak 15:13
And if you don’t believe it, you never will be You’re right. This right. I’m, in a lot of ways you were ahead of your time. In the last year or so there’s been some really popular books about unplugging from social media and things like that. Yet, in 2017, when your book came out, you talked about turning off your iPads, your pods, your TV, in the media, you know, yes. How does that help people understand where they are and who they are?
Shawn Harper 15:37
being able to listen, being able to listen
is one of the most
it’s probably one of the greatest qualities of a leader is his or her ability to listen, not just what’s going on around them, and what’s going on in them. And sometimes, when you’re tapped into social media, and you know, and you’re like waking up to your emails, you’re waking up to messages, you don’t have time to really listen, to really, you know, hear what’s really happening around you. And to hear was really happening in you and, and if you can’t listen properly, and you can’t see properly, then you can, you can never ground yourself out. Now, this is very dangerous. Because if you’re not properly grounded, okay? That means that everything that you launch from, you’re launching from the wrong position. So in order to really win in life, or to to make it to where you need to go, you have to be able to what I call, triangulate your life, where you’re at, where you’re going, and an unmovable man movables God, okay, I love God. But But, but if you’re not able to properly triangulate yourself, well, we’re not able to properly triangulate ourselves, because where we’re at, it’s off. And if you don’t take time out, like today, I just decided that just gonna be one day a week is all me, it’s just, you know, I’m just doing, I’m just doing me as much as possible. Now, as a business owner, emergencies will come up, but it’s going to be me as much as possible. I’m taking care of me, I’m doing me I’m grounding out, turning off the phone as long as possible. And I’m grounding out one day at a five during the week. That doesn’t include the weekend. But my decisions, I need to be able to make proper decisions. I need to not react to the world system, but respond properly to the world system of your crude example. Imagine if there was no, if there were no, imagine if a coffee didn’t exist. When caffeine was illegal, I’ve seen what happens with people who don’t drink coffee, do you know what happens? They get up they start yawning, because they’re really tired. But we because we had that caffeine. And because we have that coffee, it gives us a false sense of reality. And we’re making decisions as if we have all the energy and we don’t. And eventually we break down because we’re not operating from zero.
Tim Kubiak 18:28
It’s fun to use coffee as an example. Mine’s just off camera.
Shawn Harper 18:34
Listen, listen, for the record, I haven’t mastered it either. Okay, like my office brings my you know, coffee in but you know what I’m, I’m, I’m really pushing and fighting to just say no, I need to just empty out, you know, I’ve started juicing and all that good stuff, you know, as well, just so that I can be at zero. Because I’ve learned that when I turn everything off. I’m hearing things like, the really transparent moment, is that a family member of mine is sick right now. And I’m grieving, but I didn’t even know that that was grieving. And but when I shut everything down, and I’m just relaxing, I feel the pain of the loss of that individual. Just come to surface not I’d had no idea that it was there. Why? Because I’m checking my posts or mean or running around trying to take over the world. Shut it down and listen, because that can hurt you.
Tim Kubiak 19:33
Yeah, you tell resistance story, right. And you have to have resistance in life and you fight through that. When you know in life to add more resistance, right? Because sometimes you just get the point. Using a weightlifting analogy. Maybe you’re pushing a specific weight for sets and reps for years. When you add another five or 25 pounds in life.
Shawn Harper 19:56
You know, the thing about life is that you don’t have to wait Resistance is the precursor to a lot of blessings. Whenever you are, whenever you come up against resistance, it means that there’s a blessing on the way. A lot of times, sometimes resistance is self inflicted. But usually when there is struggle, when there is pain, if you deal with it and approach it the right way, the blessings around the corner, he sees the resistance is preparing you for the next plateau, there’s nothing worse, there’s nothing worse than to give an individual something he or she can’t handle. Right. And so let’s just use money, alright. So the person never had the resistance of you know, of learning how to manage money and to develop the actual discipline for money. And then you get a person $12 million. They can’t handle it. They don’t have the capacity for it. But when they come up, when it comes to the resistance, and they understand they build the muscle, they build the discipline. Wow, when it gets to the next level, they can handle it. So look at the resistance as the training camp for the next season of your life.
Tim Kubiak 21:22
You talk about seasons you talked about you can’t take everyone with you, right? You believe that there are people that can be mentors, or in your life at some point to get where you really go, and you have to move on? Did I read that right?
Shawn Harper 21:36
Yes, yes, most? Most definitely. Yeah, it’s, it’s, uh,
Unknown Speaker 21:44
I met a guy
Shawn Harper 21:47
who’s fairly well off. And he works with other people who are well off. And he says that one of the habits of a lot of, you know, well off individuals or winners is that every five years or so they fire everybody on the team, they fire their lawyer, they fire the accountant, they fire like everyone gets fired, and they start over again. Because what got you here can’t get you there or might not be able to get you there. There’s new news, new everything that’s new. That’s everything. That’s Linda’s coming out new technology, new approaches, new mindsets. And so or there are seasons in your life, right? It’s like, you know, I’m growing, I’m growing, I’m growing, or God is calling me to a whole new level. The first thing that’s the first thing that strain when you’re being called to a new level is your relationships. There are people that are, are are in your old season, there are people who are there as you progress. And then there are people that come into your life. And those individuals are for your new season, the worst thing that you can do is to bring the old people into the new season, couldn’t put put new one and old wine skins can’t do it. Can’t do
Tim Kubiak 23:05
that. And I think it’s something a lot of people don’t think about in their day to day world, right? If you look at a sports analogy, you were alignment, you have a career term, and maybe the way that you played on the line was different based on or what they needed was different based on the quarterbacks phase of their career. Mm hmm. Right. Life’s the same way.
Shawn Harper 23:25
Yeah. And, and with with every major sport, there’s, there’s an offseason. Okay, when it’s offseason, unless you have a guaranteed contract, every body’s position is up for grabs. And they’re looking at a monkey, we don’t know, most people don’t know this, but the NFL, they have a scouting department, every NFL teams has a scouting, their job is to replace you know, when you’re getting old before, you know when you’re getting out there watching that matrix for everything. how fast you are, how many plays you ran, how many mistakes you made, what’s your performance level, they check in, they grade you every day of the week, and they’re watching, okay, this person, he won’t be able to make it into the next season. We need to like ship him off to Cleveland or Dallas or Detroit. It’s done or you bring in a new coach that has a new philosophy. Yeah. And they would just get the whole team. It’s a different season.
Tim Kubiak 24:31
Yeah. And I think there’s one thing a lot of people don’t recognize about pro athletes, the minute your season ends, you really get ready for the next one because of that grading system. Yeah. Right. You’re you’re working. You talked about your junior college experience. You came back four months early, you took classes you worked out harder in the NFL, you know, you look guys start training a week or two after the season they start conditioning to building strength to building speed. They’re working with coaches. They’re not just laying on the beach.
Shawn Harper 24:58
No, no They may take January off. But offseason training for most NFL teams start March 1. Yeah. And in they, of course they can require you. But they require you bring come back, they’ll put you up and they start training for the next season. Going, right?
Tim Kubiak 25:23
Yeah. Yeah. So you talk a lot about trance, forming from junior college, to college to pros, what did you do to get ready to go from being a professional athlete to, frankly, a successful business owner? You know,
Shawn Harper 25:37
that was one of my biggest struggles. Because being being an athlete is a totally different mindset. It’s it’s, it’s you go in, you handle your business is based off of, you know, produced, let’s go, let’s get it done. And in corporate America, there is that, but it’s much at a much slower pace and the mindsets a little different. And, of course, you got to worry about what about people’s feelings? You know, HR. Okay, let’s make it happen. And that was a huge struggle for me for a while until I realized that I can take the same concepts of the NFL, or playing professional sports and I can bring it into corporate America. It’s the same thing. You just have to tweak it a bit. And once I was able to make that switch, wow, it just, it just literally took off. It was just absolutely, it was absolutely amazing after that. Oh, so amazing. Bringing the winning attitudes in the winning strategies. Let me give you one. When you play football, you know that scouting department that I was talking about? Well, let’s say that we’re playing the Kansas City Chiefs next week, that scouting department has broke down every play in every player on that team. They have broke down the tendencies of the coaches, they have the probably even know what song is going to be played in the STEM, they know everything. Okay? It is that serious. We played college football, they have grad assistants, they live at the stadium, they break down film all day, to find the tendencies just to give you the edge. We don’t do that in corporate America, yet we study, you know, the competition a little bit here and there. But that’s it. You know, it’s just so amazing to me. I’m like, Man, you guys are crazy. You don’t study the company. I didn’t know everything about my competition. Everything about I know the new company on the block. I know what’s coming out of business. Everything. Yeah,
Tim Kubiak 27:46
it’s funny. So one of the things I do in my sales coaching business, frankly, is we use football analogies all the time. But this is extra fun for me. And you know, part of it is really understanding the plays you’re going to run and who’s lining up across from you who that competition is. And you’re right, so many people in every level, don’t do that.
Shawn Harper 28:04
Right. Like it is it is. It is mind boggling. But that, but they’re not taught that. They’re taught goals. And you know, these are your, you know, this is what you’re supposed to be at. And I’m like, No, man, oh, no, no, no, it’s a little easier. If you can kind of knock your competitor out of the field here, you can outbid your competitor, you know what you’re going up against? Don’t go into the game blind, you know?
Tim Kubiak 28:31
Yeah. And so another thing I’ve heard you talk about is right, the guy that’s chirping at you from across the line, and being able to block him out.
Shawn Harper 28:40
Yes, you know, so it is so fascinating. Being on the office line of an average football stadium may have 35,000 people. And you know, and they’re yelling, and they yelling loud. Then you have the 11 players on the opposite side of the line. And they’re talking trash, because they do their research to right pocket. They know your wife’s name, or they trust me. Yeah, but but you’re listening to one voice. You’re listening to rhythm, and the cadence of the quarterback. And nothing else matters except for that one voice because he can call an audible, he can change, you can change that play up on you. And you have about a second and a half to make an adjustment, maybe two seconds. The blocks that are blocking this person, you’re going to block that person, you know, so yeah, yeah. being trained that takes discipline to to shut down everything, even your emotions to focus on your assignment. Yeah. Yeah.
Tim Kubiak 29:47
So one of the things I want to ask is, you chose after playing in three cities to open your business in your original home city that didn’t even have a protein. Do you mind me asking? What led you to back to Columbus?
Shawn Harper 30:02
But because the business kind of fell in my hands, it was once my brother’s business, okay, my brother in law and I, we purchased it and then he left. And so I was, you know, I will say, you know what, I’m just gonna, you know, set it up had I had a chance to do it all over again. I think I would have settled in Indianapolis more or spent some more time there. I went to college right down the street. So I use a powerful network there. And but yeah, that’s that’s it. You know what, I’m just gonna stay here. It’s comfortable. And I can be uncomfortable and comfortable at the same time. You know, I can get radical and go out and try to take over the world yet. When it’s all said and done. You know, I can, you know, come back to the corner with my family.
Tim Kubiak 30:48
It’s nice and family is very important to you. I’ve heard you talk about it.
Shawn Harper 30:51
Tim Kubiak 30:54
your book is fantastic. Again, you can get it and Shawn harper.org. What else should I ask you that I didn’t ask you today? What else would you like to share
Shawn Harper 31:02
with Doug? Well?
What’s the plan? What’s your plan? COVID-19 knocked out about 100% 90 to 100% of all your speaking engagements. How are you retooling in this new paradigm? And my answer would be that I’m falling in love with zoom. I am falling in love with doing online presentations because I can finish this presentation. And I can go to breakfast, or I can go to dinner. Or I can pick up and go into the boardroom and I can have a meeting and very I can knock out three or four days a day. Like right off camera is my son. He’s sitting he’s 18 years old. He’s he’s gonna go to Kent State soon and but you know what I’m having, you know, as soon as this meeting is over, I can go toe to ball with him. I can laugh with him and like this is amazing. Typically I would have to go on the plane, check into a hotel, you know, go through, you know, the process get miked up soundcheck speak. I did 45 minutes to an hour. And I’m sitting right here. I’m like, man, we can get the world hooked on this. I am loving this. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 32:14
you get a new 212 Uh huh. You get a new 212
Shawn Harper 32:19
Tim Kubiak 32:19
yeah. Right. He’s on the theme. Yeah.
Shawn Harper 32:24
This is my, but with that. The, the 212 is that now have to perfect this game, you know, and so I’m learning each day, like I’m higher, had to speed up my internet connection, hardwire this directly to the router, and I’m still working on the lighting and I need to have like redundancies and I need to have a daggone backup generator just in case the thing crashes. You know, imagine if like, like if you lost power right now. That’s it? Yeah. No, it’s like it’s a wrap. You know, it takes about 20 minutes to reboot everything out. Like, you know what, you know, you know, hey, you know, where’s your backup power supply? You know? Yeah. So yeah, I’m changing a lot right now.
Tim Kubiak 33:16
And you have to know, because the world has changed. Yes,
Shawn Harper 33:19
yes. Yes, it definitely is. Yeah.
Tim Kubiak 33:24
Shawn, it’s been a pleasure having you on. Thank you so much.
Shawn Harper 33:27
Hey, thank you. And do me a selfish favor here. I am on as you mentioned earlier, I am on social media. If you can do me a favor all the listeners if you can go to my social media on Instagram, particularly Shawn Harper, Speaker Sean with a sh JW and Shawn Harper speaker, follow me on Instagram. I have some great stuff coming out. I have a course that’s coming out. And I’m going to be promoting it primarily on Instagram, Shawn Harper, speakerphone,
Tim Kubiak 33:56
until everybody will have that in the show notes as well. So everybody can just click and get to it. Awesome.
Shawn Harper 34:01
Thank you. Thank you.